According to Daniel Raffaele of the Stop the AVN facebook group, NSW Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC) will be investigating the AVN. It has determined that the AVN does indeed fall under the Health Care Complaints Act.
Daniel poses three possible outcomes:
The HCCC may make a statement that the AVN is unreliable and invite the NSW State Parliament to make a similar statement. This will blow apart any remaining credibility the AVN has and media organisations will be forced to think twice before using them as a source.
The HCCC may order the AVN to retract any or all of the statements they have made.
The HCCC may order the AVN to shut down. This is by far the most desirable outcome as it will see the end of the AVN.
The original complaint can be found here thanks to the Skeptics book.
What say you readers? What outcome do you think is the most desirable?
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Cynicism suggests that the HCCC will simply advise them to stop offering health advice. If it has the authority, it may require some sort of statement be posted on the AVN website. This assuming they find against them.
It's difficult to suggest a desirable outcome that doesn't involve restricting free speech. In a perfect world, government authorities and the media wouldn't allow the AVN's statements to be published unchallenged. But that same perfect world wouldn't have people selling homeopathy of psychic readings either.
@Andy. The HCCC complaint against the AVN specifically states that free speech is illusory in Australia. There are several precedents where court orders have been imposed to prevent misleading and dangerous advice. In the cases noted , this is rightly so; as it should be with the dangerous ramblings of the AVN. Cheers.
I'd be happy if the AVN was simply compelled to retract any false or misleading statements that it has made. They would probably only re-form under some other guise if shut down anyway.
With regard to free speech, even in jurisdictions which do have an express right to free speech, limitations are placed on that right. In Australia, we legally only have a limited right to free speech with respect to political issues. That right to can be overridden by other considerations.
In any case, I don't think that the right to free speech should include the right to make false claims, particularly with regard to medical advice.
My money is on the second option, though with a pandemic on our hands they might be pushed to be a bit more heavy handed.
Pandemic? In what fairyland do you live?!? Oh that's right! The place where the nation's health authority can declare a pandemic AFTER it changes the definition. Look it up. Have you got all your booster shots, Sean? Every 5 years? Or didn't the doctor tell you that? Look it up Sean. Hurry, hurry, the beast is at the door! Oops! That's just Big Pharma with the souls of all the doctors it has turned. Look it up. Hurry, hurry Sean, roll up your sleeve for Gardasil because you really don't want cervical cancer! Yep, you fellas are next. Look it up Sean. HPV (Help Pay for VIOXX). Better bring your wallet though, 'cause that one costs almost $400. USD for the 3 jabs. Look it up . Hurry, hurry Sean, you be the first! You be the guinea pig! You be one of the less than 2,000 in the trials for H1N1. That's right. Less than 2,000 in the clinical study. Look it up Sean. Let us know how your immune system reacts, Sean.
The fairyland called reality, you should try it some time. Now on to your thoughtful and well considered comment. Let's see what you have come up with. Hmmm.
The only reference I can find to a change of definition was one made by the WHO, in response to the rapid spread of the virus.
Booster shots hmmm lets see
Tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis yep – you see I caught whooping cough when a teen having missed a booster , no just one of those mild coughs that Meryl loves to talk about.
HPV – no not yet. And the vaccine is currently free for Australian women.
Varicella not necessary due to immunity
Measles again not necessary
Hep – again not necessary due to my lifestyle and employment not warranting it.
H1N1 – as soon as it becomes available in my area.
Care to divulge your medical history? I would have been nice to have had the HPV vaccine sooner it might have prevented a certain family member contracting HPV and suffering cervical cancer.
Not sure if you realize that men don't have a cervix? The vaccine has been shown to reduce their risk of genital warts and precancerous lesions caused by HPV. I will consult with my doctor as to whether of not it is worth having as a) I'm monogamous b) in all likelihood will have come in contact with the virus due to my age.
The H1N1 study, which one there are quite a few, 80 or so world wide. The one in Adelaide being run by CSL is closed to new participants. Will my participation in a trial change your mind – no didn't think so.
I'll be sure to come back and tell you how my immune system reacts to the H1N1 vaccine, not that I will be doing this specifically for you – i was intending to make a post of it.
Well responded Sean.
I sometimes think we need to include basic human immunology in our high school curriculum – maybe then people would have an understanding of the science behind how our bodies respond to viruses & bacteria. I'm amazed at the young mothers today (in their 20s & 30s) who are so easily scared off vaccination by scaremongering groups like the AVN.
We're so lucky in Australia that our vaccinations are generally free or at very reduced costs. Long live Medicare and the PBS.
I'm trying to determine when/if to have the H1N1 vaccine. I'm thinking I'll wait until around mid-summer. My thinking is thus: it'll give enough time for scientific reporting of any adverse side effects of the vaccine to come out yet still give enough time to have the shot prior to the onset of early flu season in autumn.
Hello Desertgirl,
Why are you waiting? What do you know?
Have you heard or read somewhere that CSL's H1N1 vaccine may be harmful? Or perhaps may not work? Do you normally get a seasonal 'flu shot? Is the H1N1 vaccine different? Which one was part of the clinical trials that you studied? Are you waiting because the real trial has only just begun last week and you don't want to be a guinea pig? What do you know? Why are you waiting?
You are a healthcare professional and your knowledge I respect because I am sure that you have researched, specifically, CSL's H1N1 vaccine for it's safety record and it's efficacy record before making your decision. 'Would you please site some of the research notes you used to form your knowledge base from which you made your decision? I, for one, would be most appreciative if you would kindly share your knowledge, especially if your research has helped you come to an informed decision. Wait. Sorry, you haven't come to an informed decision, have you? Perhaps your study and research into basic human immunology has left you with some small measure of doubt. Please share.
Since Desertgirl prefers to wait and the trial in Adelaide is closed to new participants; perhaps you, Sean, would step up to take her place in the biggest trial yet. It started last week around Australia! Your gov't is so POSITIVE that CSL's H1N1 vaccine is safe and efficacious that it couldn't wait for the clinical trial data to be published. Wait. Has it been published? Do you know, Sean? Do you know, Desertgirl? If the data from CSL's H1N1 vaccine clinical trials in Adelaide has been published, please share. For that matter, if ANY data from ANY CSL H1N1 vaccine clinical trial has been published, please find it and please share it. If you can't find any published studies about CSL's H1N1 vaccine, then how about looking for ANY data on ANY vaccine manufacturer's H1N1 vaccine clinical trial(s). I will wait. So, apparently, will Desertgirl, a healthcare professional who will wait to see how others react before she takes a personal chance with this vaccine. What does she know?
Desertgirl, I agree with you that we in Australia are lucky to have generally free or very reduced healthcare costs. Imagine what it would be like if we , the taxpayers, had to fork out the "more than $100 million " the Australian gov't is paying CSL for the H1N1 vaccine. (N. Roxon on 18 Sept.'09.) That would put some dent in our collective coffers, wouldn't it? Wait. Who is paying for it then? Oh yes, the Australian taxpayer!!! Is that you, Desertgirl? Do you pay tax to the federal gov't? Do you pay the Medicare levy? If yes to either question, then congratulations!!! Desertgirl, you ARE paying for the H1N1 vaccine! Whether you get it or not, you are paying for it. Might as well stand in line and roll up your sleeve. Why wait? What do you know?
Please Share.
As you know I am living remotely, however the two major population centres near me have had outbreaks – some 80 cases at a local school.
Hi Sean,
Glad you found that about the WHO. America declares a pandemic, Australia follows, as usual. Trouble is, this isn't a pandemic. The death rate from H1N1isn't affecting the population growth of any country, including Mexico, where 236 have died from the swine flu as of today. The WHO reported that 4,108 people have died from swine flu complications, worldwide, as of today, 6 Oct 09. (Assoc. Press). The WHO official estimate of AIDS deaths for the year 2007, published in 2008, is 2 million people worldwide. Now that is a pandemic. Agreed? How can 4,100 deaths in 18 months be considered a pandemic? The WHO estimates that 6 million people will die from tobacco-related diseases next year. Now that's a pandemic. Agreed? The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) published in its National Vital Statistics Report, that in 2004, 1,265 people died from influenza, in the US. The same report states that 2,860 died from malnutrition in 2004 and 3,780 died from asthma , in the US, in 2004. Is that last number of pandemic proportions? No. Agreed? Then how can 4,108 WORLDWIDE be considered a pandemic? It defies logic.
According to the CDC's website, as of June 18, 2009, 87 people had died from swine 'flu in the USA. Clearly, that is not a pandemic number. What we have here is called spin.
After you get all of your necessary boosters which should , according to the Australian Gov't website, include: tetanus (every 10 years), diphtheria (every 10 years), mumps (every 10 years), rubella (every 10 years), Meningococcal C, Pneumococcal (yearly), seasonal flu (yearly), Polio, (if you haven't had it already), Hep B (if you haven't already had it), you should make a list of all the batch numbers/lots of all of the drugs you were given so that you will have a record if you have an adverse reaction to any or all of the vaccines,. Pay close attention to the H1N1 jab. Is it a multi-dose bottle? Is yours the last dose? If you have an adverse reaction of ANY kind, report it to your doctor who must report it to the gov't health authority in Australia. You will need the batch/lot numbers to complete your report. If you do not have those numbers your specific report will not be considered to be complete and your reaction data will become a useless stat. Remember, if you have a reaction and need compensation you must supply those numbers. Wait. Sorry, I got carried away. Even if you collect those numbers and report an adverse reaction, no one will give a stuff. Why? Because EVERY vaccine manufacturer and EVERY healthcare professional who administers vaccines is indemnified by your gov't against litigation. You lose. Again.
Good luck!
PS Just between you and me, should we let Merck in on the secret? You know, the one about males not being equipped with a cervix? It might spoil all their fun…
As a trained nurse I am offended by the claims that multi-dose bottles present a safety issue in Australia. Clean, new needle & syringe + cleaned bottle = safe. In poverty-stricken devoloping nations where sterile equipment may not be in plentiful supply, then there may be a safety issue – this is why organisations like Travel Doctors suggest to tourists to carry their own, specially made up sterile medical kits, including a clean syringe and fine guage needle.
When nurses draw up a dose from a multi-dose bottle, if there's not enough liquid to make the full dose, then protocol says discard the lot and start with a new bottle, new needle, new syringe. It happens all the time. Safety first (in spite of the hospital bean counters).
And of course if you have an adverse reaction after receiving the vaccine, yes, report it to your doctor and go to hospital. You will not be turned away. You will be monitored, you will have information taken from you. Health professionals don't like adverse reactions. Their priority is your wellness. Have faith in the public and private health systems (in Australia and NZ at least).
Sorry Sean, back to you.
I think that the most probable outcome, should they find that the AVN has fallen foul of the act is that they will be forced to retract their statements. Seems to be what happen when other sites fall foul of such things. I guess it will depend to some extent on how serious they think the AVN campaign of misinformation is.
One thing's for certain, the AVN will be claiming persecution/ conspiracy should the result by negative
Hello Sean.
It is fantastic that you are defending Desertgirl's right to choose! Every anti-vaxer in Australia will applaud you for standing up for DG's right of choice.
This week Qld Health sent a letter to the parents and carers of school children titled: Human Swine Influenza Pandemic (H1N1) 2009.
Here is part of it verbatim:
"The Commonwealth, in conjunction with States and Territories, are strongly recommending vaccination for people aged 10 years and over who are in one of the following groups:
. individuals with respiratory disease (eg. asthma)
. healthcare workers" (Registered Document No: CHO03020, if you want to view it online @ health.qld.gov.
Unfortunately for DG, her chronic condition (eg. asthma) is not a valid excuse for not vaccinating, according to the health dept. Please pass this on to DG as she may be unaware that she is one of the specific individuals the gov't is targeting with the initial phase of the vaccination program. She needs to be warned that her health may be in jeopardy what with the pandemic gaining momentum, if she continues to wait to vaccinate.
Here are some websites to further your education. Please feel free to share them with other (psuedo) sceptics.
http://www.visainfo.org.au/
http://www.offtheradar.co.nz/
http://www.thinktwice.com
http://www.medicine-no.com/
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/
Thank you! Now you may ban me, you rude ignoramus. Wait. Wouldn't you then be guilty of INTERNET CENSORSHIP?!?
Defending DG’s right to choose? I don’t know her full medical background which may include other conditions. I think she should get the vaccine if she can. See how you take my silence as approval, see how you jump to conclusions.
There will be people out there that will not be able to have the vaccine – but the people out there who think it is a conspiracy between the government and CSL to make profits at the expense of the health of Australian’s are quite frankly nutbags with no evidence.
On the 80 cases, the mother of one of the children, though for accuracies sake I will talk to the local doctor to see if I can get confirmed cases. Because you know that you can only trust parents when they are anti-vaxx
Oh and you might want to go easy on the links, the spam filter is set up to catch link spamming, one at a time should be okay though.
I will ban you if you keep attacking other readers and demanding to know their specific medical history and attacking their character without evidence, you can badger me all you like. But this is not your platform to come and speak about whatever you like this is my blog, you post here entirely at my discretion. The topic of the post was about the AVN being investigated not once have you commented on that topic, on some sites you would have been booted off for simply not discussing the issue at hand, me I am pretty free about that sort of thing.
Internet Censorship, ha that’s a funny one considering that it was yourself or a friend that tried to report a comment to the admin(who is incidently me) for name calling, internet censorship and inappropriate language. Was the point to try and get me banned?
I have looked at the first link briefly, I can’t say I am impressed with the quality of your evidence, nevertheless I will soldier on.
Hello Sean.
It is fantastic that you are defending DG's right to choose not to vaccinate! Anti-vaxers will applaud you for defending DG's right of choice.
This week QLD Health sent a letter to the parents and carers of school children, entitled: Human Swine Influenza Pandemic (H1N1) 2009. Here is part of it verbatim: The Commonwealth, in conjunction with States and Territories, are strongly recommending vaccination for people aged 10 years and over who are in one of the following groups:
. individuals with respiratory disease (eg. asthma)
. healthcare workers" (Registered Document No: CHO03020)
Unfortunately for DG her chronic condition (eg. asthma) is not a valid excuse for not vaccinating, according to the health dept. Please pass this on to her as she may be unaware that she is one of the specific individuals the gov't is targeting with the initial push of this vaccination program. Her health may be in jeopardy what with the growing pandemic.
80 cases in 1 school? Provide your source, please.
Here are some websites to further your education. Feel free to pass them on to other (psuedo) sceptics.
http://www.visainfo.org.au/
http://www.thinktwice.com
http://www.offtheradar.co.nz/
http://www.www.medicine-no.com/
Now you may ban me, you rude ignoramus! Wait. That sounds just like INTERNET CENSORSHIP!