21st century…check
Australia… check
Just wanted to make sure we were in the right time and place.
The Herald Sun reports that a Melbourne Islamic toe rag…I mean… self styled cleric preached to his male followers in 2003 that it was alright to:
- Beat your wife if she was disobedient (but only if you don’t make them bleed or bruise)
- Force your wife to have sex with you against her will
And where does his justification come from? Why his book of magical wisdom of course, the Koran. So you can beat them but not so heavily that there is physical evidence of your violent behavior.
The Herald Sun reports that
He then mocked Australia’s criminal laws, which required consent for sex to be lawful.
“In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to and she hasn’t got a sickness or whatever, there is nothing wrong with her she just does not feel like it, and he ends up sleeping with her by force … it is known to be as rape,” Mr Hamza said.
“Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?”
Amazing? What’s amazing Samir is you stoneage ignorance and your contemp for Australian Law.
It was 2003 when he made this speech and we would have been none the wiser if someone had not filmed the sermon and posted it on the internet. You view the film and the Herald Sun Article here
Of course when he was contacted about the speech recently he was evassive and blamed a jewish conspiracy for trying to persecute him. He did stand by his comments though. Jewish conspiracy…serioiusly ypou could not make this crap up.
The Islamic Women’s Welfare Council of Victoria has stated that Hamza’s interpretation is bigoted and not shared by Orthodox practioners (until they get caught out?).
It would be nice if his comments we roundly condemned by the Islamic community in general rather than just a women’s group. The Islamic Council of Victoria has committed to workshoping these issues with Clerics and Immams but I wonder just how wide spread this misogynistic interpetation extends.
Islam is a religion of peace?
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That is one of the interesting things, how much more of this stuff gets taught to all the believers that the rest of us never hear? Makes you wonder.
By the way, interesting tag: islamic toe rag
wonder how many people search for that? lol
Toe rag said with an east end accent is my new favourite word
Hey Sean, I think some one up top has been reading your blog!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/22/247...
Now if only he would read my posts about filtering and demand that Conroy apologise for his remarks to filtering opponents
This is disgracefull, how can you claim that Islam is a religion of peace, what a load of rubbish, with teachings like this.The only true religion of peace is Christianity, look at the life of Jesus, God in human form, if you tuly study him, with all your heart, you will realize the true meaning of grace, and in turn you will treat your wifes with respect and dignity.Take the time.
I don't know if Samir reads this blog so your message may not get through to him. On the subject of Christianity being a religion of peace that's a load of crap too. The only reason Christians are more peaceful is because the christian west has undergone a reformation.
Check out the crusades, particularly the albigensian crusade. This is where the saying "Kill them all , god will know his own" originates.
Think Christianity treats women better. My aunt was told the same thing when she was married that her duty was to submit to her husband unless she was on her period.
Thank you! All religions share in their oppression and violence!
Jesus (Luke 19:27)
But surely we ae taking that out of context
To be fair – yes it is slightly out of context. Jesus was speaking in parables (as he does to ensure people don't understand what he is saying and are doomed to hell). The story is one of utilizing the gifts God has given you, but if you squander them you will be killed before him. We are told this is love, but not as we know it. Whatever.
Islam is THE religion of peace. take your own advice and "TAKE THE TIME" to learn about its true meaning with all your heart and not what people like this idiot have to say. how about starting by listening to some of these lectures which say the TRUTH about islam. Make sure you take the time to listen to the whole thing. and THEN let me know what your opinion oif Islam is.
http://www.shialectures.net/index_E.php?p=lecture...
http://www.shialectures.net/index_E.php?p=lecture...
i pity samir abu hamza, as a Muslim myself. i think he is a disgrace. why make such a beautiful religion look so wrong with stupid comments like this! when i heard it on the news, i was outraged i couldve bashed him right then and there if he was in front of me! also, it kills me when people judge our religion when they know nothing about it. yes, im referring to the comments above and i will say it and i have said it to anyone that judges my religion in any way. get a grip people.
Oh the irony.
I think the bash comment undid all your good work lol but I'm westernized – went to a christian school and feel the same way. I'm not christian but I dont support any other either. I believe the judgements being placed on the religion are inflammatory and honestly demeaning to the women of the Muslim religion. Tali Ban Media Reports did a lot of damage and was wrongly misinterpreted as Muslim by the ignorant. Westerners just need education. I appreciate you commenting as a Muslim follower- small actions add up to help undo the damage cause by one very loud individual.
Islam is not a religion of peace, Muslims can choose to interpret its writing in that way if they so choose, as can christians. As I pointed out below Muslims Christians and Jews for that matter are peaceful in spite of their religious texts not because of them
Agreed. Even Hindu extremists are committing atrocious acts. Humans will do as they will in the name of this or that.
I do think Miriam has made a poor choice in choosing a location to astroturf as well ;P
There is no 'true' religion. To each their own. And all fundamentalists of ANY religion are dangerous. and Christians? Peaceful? Ever heard of stoning homosexuals? from the first testament and exile from the second. Yeah – real peaceful (rolling eyes and watching back for that fundamentalist aiming at me)- and the crusades- an especially enlightening period – really devoid of violence (clearly SARCASM also).
and also since when does one individual represent the masses. Shall I hold you and your religion responsible for the death of Matt Shepherd? 0.o
Grow up and educate yourself.
But of course! Letting your son be nailed to a cross is a very peaceful way to get rid of the pest.
(1) Gary Ryan, you're little more than a bigot mate. Christianity is a religion of peace my arse… Christian Crusades were hardly peaceful buddy, in fact they were the most brutal times in all known history. There is no religion of peace, the religious context alone states that the people who believe in it are right, and those that don't are wrong, which breeds contempt, which breeds hatred, which breeds violence. Now, I'm just a 28 year old Aussie, so I would think that Allah, God, Brahman, the Tetragrammaton or Yahweh, or even friggin John smith or L. Ron Hubbard would have come to the conclusion that basing a religion like this would only lead to violence & bloodshed, after all they're divine right. I don't include Buddha because he's not a religious man. Buddhism is a civic code, but hilariously is the closest thing to a religion of peace.
Sure, Samir Abu Hamza was talking out his arse on that topic, but if you honestly think all Muslims agree with those specific ramblings then what's to stop me saying you follow the teachings of the old testament? you know, the first of your religion's textbooks? hmmm, let's look at your religions history then… "EXODUS 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free. Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul(?) and he shall serve him for ever…." That's peaceful riiight? Slavery of Jews? Well, it's sanctioned in YOUR bible so I'm a get me some slaves, and an aul? just in case they try to stand up to me, we are after all in a Christian modelled society. Or my favourite – EXODUS 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Let's see how that goes over in today's society. Although it makes you wonder, particularly Exodus, how 'thou shalt not kill' as one of the commandments fits in with all the right to slaying or stoning there is. If a man kills his slave by beating them to death, he'll just be punished, but a son tells his Dad he to get f*c%ed then he can be killed…. I guess Jewish slaves don't have as much right to life as Christians eh. So to say that Islam is rubbish because of one appointed mans words of stupidity, when the fabric of existence you base your life on was born from bloodshed, fire & brimstone is bigoted, hateful, and hypocrticial.
(2) So how bout you shut your pie trap, stay on the topic of Samir Abu Hamza owing an apology for his comments on Wifely duties, that IINSA should repudiate him & relieve him of his position with them, and be done with it? It's called regulation, and sometimes is necessary – The number of misguided preachers from all denominations say things like this & far worse without recompense, but the Islamic council has rejected his views, quoting their prophet Muhammed in saying "the best of you is he who is kindest to their wife".
You may be aware Gary, that Australia is a signatory to the 1966 United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights that specifically states: "Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression" We don't have a constitution of individual rights, but the treaty is universal. So as much as it sucks, it's what allows you to switch on the Christian channel on foxtel and listen to your preachers speak the word of god as much as it allows a Muslim to tune in to paltalk to follow his own beliefs & express them publically. If it contravenes our Country's legal system & the individual is in a position of influence, the individual should be addressed & dealt with, not the religion. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs, however misguided they may be.
How about this… You seem solid enough in your faith to listen to the lecture of a man from another religion speak without swaying you, so why not watch one of his sermons for yourself, then judge the man & the religion….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBvQgalP3mA (skip to about 5 minutes in, it's a long intro)
His comments on Australians being largely binge drinkers is accurate. We do have one of the highest pecentages per capita in the world. But he is generalising as suggested in the context. What he said about the duty of the Wife is completely misguided & wrong, there is no excuse for the mans comments, although the fact he said it was the equivalent of tapping them with a toothbrush and only after months of reasoning indicates that the proportion of his comment has been sensationalised through media ratings strategies – But the suggestions of deporting him is what is UnAustralian, the guy's been here since he was child & expressed one view that was ignorant, in only words, but paid respect to the law in his comments. I personally feel this comes more from his Lebanese background than his religion, the values of domesticity are greatly different in Lebanon than here & include to an extent these views of Wifely 'duties'. But let's not forget preachers are people too, just like your preachers that say eternal damnation waits for all sinners… well that's me screwed, but i guess you've told a fib in your life too you're damned as well. Or the ones that rape young boys, or just have a fiddle… had to throw that in there, if only to demonstrate your hypocritical stance of your religion opposed to Islam.
For the record, I'm not religious, that would be like shouting 'You're wrong, I'm right. My ideas and faiths are true, yours should be expelled' every single day. The very basis of every war in history. No, instead I just like to be informed before I open my mouth, and I'll challenge those that display ignorance like your religious agenda post..
There's something about leave you wives and families and sell all of your possessions too, very peaceful and conducive to a well structured and stable society.
The bible mentions this many times, yet Christians never seem to adhere to this rule. Fakers.
Not saying that I agree that it is being taken out of context only that some christians would claim that, ie " what he really means is this…etc"
I think this is because the bible is a mixture of a number of traditions that are conflicting. You have competing ideas of what it means to be a good christian (appropriated from early traditions) and it gets mashed into together. Hence you have a messiahnic hero figure that comes bearing a sword, a buddha like peaceful preacher, and a throw all your posessions away , and wander around bludging of others while making pronoucements about the world.
agree – here is an example of a moron.
disagree – your implied view that islam or christianity are not religions of peace, and here’s why:
this man has expressed his view that raping/beating wife is ok. there are many cases of people of many religions/races including modern day aussie blokes that do this. it happens behind closed doors and nobody knows about it.
– my view being that violence and bad treatment of women runs throughout the history of man is independant of religion and race. men have always been the dominating species and look what we have created – nuclear bombs that could destroy the world over, greedy corporations that control the world (look at the US!), destroy the land air and water we require, gangs, and fundamentally the religions that cause this conflict.
there have been great things that man had done, but if women had an equal say in this, would they have allowed weapons that could kill thousands of sons and daughters to be built? In my opinion, no. And that is because women have a mothering nature and in there nature it is to protect the family (together with the man). Of course this is a very very hypothetical and in a way reverse discriminatory statement, but what man can imagine his mother or daughter to be so ruthless.
I also believe that a video of somebody saying these things in 2003 being released now must be a non-coincidence(after a war in Gaza which portrayed the plight of the Muslims). That and together with anti-Jewish comment made be the Muslim guy…. hmmmm….. why is it big news now?
And for 1 muslim guy to have made these comments in 2003 to be exposed now, does not represent the larger Muslim community in Australia. There will be 1000’s of peaceful people who follow Islam for every 1 of these guys.
The same statistics could be applied to every religion and for 1 bad person, there will be 1000’s of peaceful people! To generalise based on the 1 person is rather unfair. but how news worthy is the average-Joe Muslim that follows his religion with a peaceful lifestyle and does not interpret the holy book to promote violence and is a good Aussie citizen???
ladies and gentlemen, that gives you my view of media coverage and the anti-islamic press that we will no doubt see in the coming few weeks!
But in general, why does it matter so much that 1 guy says such things? We all know inside ourselves what is right for us and others, but we choose to get angry at this 1 guy. There is no need to get angry because this anger will create negative thoughts inside your head and your view of the world is that little bit less rosy! Enjoy yourselves in this beautiful country and let other people worry about the boneheads out there!
And finally, if a guy spends his energy in doing nice things for his wife and showing her love, he would get laid so much easier! haha!
Peace out
>>>this man has expressed his view that raping/beating wife is ok. there are many cases of people of many religions/races including modern day aussie blokes that do this. it happens behind closed doors and nobody knows about it.<<<
His justification is the Koran in western society the justification springs from values/ideas set out in the bible. You point that rape happens does not invalidate the point that a "peaceful" religion is condoning it.
On religions being peaceful. What is written in each of the holy books is written there in black and white for all to see. To a large extent peaceful Muslims and Christians exist in spite of the writings in their holy books, their religions, because we have to co exist peacefully, we are no longer small tribal states. Becasue we can see that some of these rules and regulations are left overs from a patriarchal misogynistic desert nomand culture.
Why does it matter that one guy says such things etc?
a) its not just one guy, that guy is a leader
b) not all people "know inside" particularly those who have been condition or taught otherwise
c) I am not angry, I am pointing out his idiocy as part of community censure of his actions
You suggest we should sit back and let others sort out the bone heads. Great, detach yourself from public discourse say nothing, she'll be right.
"SHE' LL be right" . She. Oh the irony is beautiful. How very appropriate
(No sarcasm- Your turn of phrase and choice of context is both Intelligent and Amusing- thanks for getting a smile out of me on this ugly issue)
Yes umm… totally intended – eight ball in corner pocket
He is a literalist passing on allah's divine rules. Unfortunately the christian virus has adapted over to time to incorporate secular values and claim them as their own. The evolution is so slow, that following generations of infected souls, actually believe, the changes forced on their faith, were their values all along.
I am a Muslim and i live in Egypt with my Egyptian islamic husband. And i can not believe the crap you go on over there with in my home country. How muslim run the Islamic name into the ground. Please tell me where it is written in the Holly Quran it is ok to rape a women – specially not your wife. Did Prophet Mohammed do that? I live in an islamic country and my husband as never hit me or raped me. No wonder Australians don't want islamic schools in there area with comments made like this.
Tell me again when your wonderful prophet consummated his marriage to Aisha, and do you think that is the most perfect morality we can aspire to?
That was going to be my point
I am from the gold coast in queensland australia- the site of a proposed muslim school. Firstly I am not religious. At all. And I and many others (who also are not muslim) have fought to have this school built. If I have to put up with Christian and Catholic schools in my area then I should have to put up with Muslim schools as well. I dont believe in religious education but I do believe in multi-culturalism and I would like you to please know that the general public opinion was not negative. Just a few very loud opposers got more airtime. I hope they are successful.
Jennifer, here you go:
The Cow 2:223 Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will..
Women 4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.
Women 4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them.
NO abrahamic religion is a religion of peace!
Amen
to that
Oh boy Sean. The can of worms has been opened.
It will be interesting to monitor the situation as it unfolds
Popcorn worthy, isn't it?
This post nearly topped out the most visits in a day. But people hate the pope more
Totally agree with you. As an ex-Muslim Pakistani currently living in Australia, I believe such people should not be given the facilities and power to brainwash individuals into thinking that rape is justified.
Things like this remind me why I left Islam and joined ethics and morality.
To the bloke who implies that religions are in fact peaceful, and wife beating is also carried out by Western husbands: Western society does not CONDONE it, Islam and other religions encourage it. It says quite clearly in the Quran (Verse 4:34) that it is okay to admonish and beat your wives.
Many Muslims argue that those verses have been taken out of context, and that it is actually a peaceful religion. Well the Quran also states that it is the 'perfect' book, well if it is the perfect book it cannot be misinterpreted. If it is in fact the book of a divine spirit, the all knowing, the all powerful, yadda yadda, then it shouldn't have verses that can be taken out of context. It is a book full of literary mistakes, awful repetition, along side terrible teachings. As an English literature student, it has to be the worst book I've ever read.
You say "what does it matter if one guy says these things" – it DOES matter, because it is one extremely influential guy!
Great post, good sir!
Hehe, I'm a female
So am I. and frankly Mam's more offensive. Yay Sir!!!
I thought the bible was painful. The koran is worse on my reading of it. But then of course I am not reading it in the original arabic
I read it in it's original Arabic form, and trust me, it's no better. All the more tedious.
Well you have my admiration.
Have you heard of Kafir Girl http://kafirgirl.wordpress.com/
absolute riot
Yes, she rocks. I'm always awaiting her next analysis of the Quran. Her posts never fail to entertain me.
Its not surprising at all, coming from a Muslim guy. If you read the Koran or the Old Testament, women are classified under the same category as "male property", which includes, amongst other things, cattle, donkeys, and other domesticated animals. These people worship a god who is essentially preoccupied with ancient tribal mentality which regards women as nothing more than goods and cattle.
Beast FCD
interesting follow ups to my post. i enjoyed the discussion.
i must admit that i do not have a large wealth of experience in knowing what is written in the Quran/Bible or any other religious texts.
But I am sure for the few verses that are interpreted by some to condone violence etc. etc. there are many more verses encouraging a healthy lifestyle e.g. work hard, look after one another etc.
I cannot argue against some of the points that these books are supposed to be perfect if they can be be read/interpreted in such a manner. But my view is that it isn’t the religious text that is at fault, it is the person who interprets them in a negative light (and I know not everyone will agree with this).
Again, looking at things more holistically, the evils people do will be blamed on something. A man is not evil by nature and will not do evil things unless he can justify it and the deed will be “justified” by something in a holy book, playing computer games, reading it in another book, viewing it on television, for the good of democracy, for the good of capitalism, for the good of the majority etc etc.
So I will not be blaming religion for the ills of the world, because they would still be here. I believe that in general, religion does control the masses mainly in a good way so that this huge population in the world can coexist relatively peacefully. People imagine the world to be a better place without religion. But ironically, again that is a belief that cannot be proven right or wrong.
Do I believe in god? Yes. Does it matter if God exists or not to me? No. Because what is important is how we live our lives and not use God or any other of those reasons above as an excuse for bad behaviour.
I would however like to read some comments on my views regarding the timing of this news:
>>I also believe that a video of somebody saying these things in 2003 being released now must be a non-coincidence(after a war in Gaza which portrayed the plight of the Muslims). That and together with anti-Jewish comment made be the Muslim guy…. hmmmm….. why is it big news now?
And for 1 muslim guy to have made these comments in 2003 to be exposed now, does not represent the larger Muslim community in Australia. There will be 1000’s of peaceful people who follow Islam for every 1 of these guys.
@Sean
I wrote a short article about this on the Swedish blog Every Kinda People. Thank you for letting us know about this bastard. We have huge problems with "The religion of peace" in Sweden and the rest of Europe as well, and it´s getting worse. It´s sad to see that Australia have been invaded as well. My escape plan if thing where getting to bad i good old Sweden, was to emigrate to Australia to be able to live in a western culture. That hope seems to be gone now. That makes me even more determined – islam must be civilized!
http://everykindapeople.blogspot.com/2009/01/aust...
Keep up the fight!
@ Mariam
We have thousands of Mariams in Sweden as well. People who keep on babbling about "the true islam". The truth is you can find support for that the man should have the right to opress his wife (all of them:) in the quran. You can, for instance, look in chapter 4:34 you see it. Maybe the nice little version islam you been forced into or choosed by free will, don´t agree with abuse of women, but millions of other muslim versions of islam does, and one of them is the scumbag Samir Abu Hamza. That´s a real problem, and not only a small theological issue that you can enjoy discussing over a cup of tea.
Hello to Sweden, my family has ties to hte island of Bornholm. Checked outthe site unfortunately I can't read swedish.
Tack själv för besöka
First of all, I'm actually surprised at how easily Australians seem to agree with anything coming from the media………………..we don't question the source…….or listen to the actual evidence………….we simple follow like sheep in a herd. Once upon a time we were a thinking nation, where we questioned the rubbish that a lot of newspapers threw at us……….but now we seem to be like zombies agreeing with whatever we are being fed. (George W Bush will be proud)
The first thing I noticed is that this lecture was held in 2003……..(hello)…..6 years ago, and published on youtube a couple of years ago. It's funny how it wasn't picked up then…would have probably done a lot more damage to the man back then, being around the time of September 11. Has no one else actually questioned this? Also, this man has not claimed that he is a prophet or a high authority on all things Muslim, nor has he claimed to be a great teacher or philosopher. He is just a man………and he is now really famous…….or infamous because of something he said 6 years ago!!!!!
People…… be really careful with what you put up on youtube………it may come back to bite you in the butt 10 years later.
Do you think we were a thinking nation. I just wonder if this is wishful thinking or misremembering on our part.
No this man is not a prophet. But he was speaking to a hall of young men and has probably continued to do so since 2003. He has certainly stood by his words. I think Imams, rabbis priest and pastors like him are more subtle and more dangeous, they don't get great coverage and they go about their merry misogynistic ways.
You do ask some interesting questions:
Who put it up?
Who was behind it – National Front?
The fact remains that he said it, and I would say continues to think it. He deserves the anger of the community his own muslim community and the larger mutli cultural Australian commuinty.
Yeah you're right…….he was talking to a hall of men. And George Bush talks to the world…..LIVE…..and still can't get it right..LOL
Yes he did say it and most likely does still believe it…as it is mentioned above that it is in the quran and he is a muslim……but does that mean that a Christian or a Jew who believes in the verses of the bible about women:
http://www.cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm
are also to be condemned or are we being picky because it is the season of picking on muslims.
If we are going to pick on people……….let's pick on everyone who does not agree with the rules of secular society.
Which is what I do in my points above. Agree with you entirely. Don't worry, if you stick around long enough I give it to the pope and local christian pastors as well.
Thank goodness that nutbag's out of the whitehouse
Oh, I hate to extend a tangent………but YES.
Each day it seems the new regime is undoing some of the religious, anti-science crap he put into law. Hope it lasts more than a week!
I used to dabble a little in comparative religion back in my uni days, and there are a lot of things in Islam, Judaism and Christianity that would touch a nerve and offend some. E.g., on the topic of women, check out this site re. Women in the Bible
http://www.cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm
Now may I suggest to any priest or rabbi who may try to explain these verses to a congregation………..MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT PUT IT ON YOUTUBE…..It may not picked up straight away….but one day (a couple of years later)……you may find yourself a household name.
God bless Australia, and all it's idiots
None of that God Bless stuff
Read your Holy book in your understanding language and then ready Quran in your understanding language, it is available in almost all languages. then Say something about Islam. if you are not clear you may e-mail me at kaif1969@yahoo.com about your doubts but never thru comments like this, I respect your religion.
No need, he was pretty clear in explaining it and many of us have read a number of holy books. Why should I respect any religion? If religions contain ideas, tennets that are stupid, dangerous or biggoted then thy should be criticised. If they can't stand on their merits then they don't deserve respect.
Hi again!
Bornholm is a part of Denmark, but the Island Bornholm is geographically much closer to Sweden than it is to Denmark. As a matter of fact I have grown up in a small town i Sweden not far from Bornholm! Now I live close to Copenhagen, and if I could have it my way, my part of Sweden (the southern part called "Skåne") shold be a part of Denmark again as i was once upon a time.
The Danes have a much more straight forward policy when it comes to immigration problems in general, and islam in particular (sorry for my bad English, it was a couple of years ago since I really had to practice it on a every day basis, arabic is the second largest language i Sweden now). Maybe I have to move to Denmark when the shit really hits the fan here in Sweden.
When it comes to the problems with islam – people like Samir Abu Hamza are fascists and nutheads! I don´t like religions of any kind (I´m am not hostile to people with a belief in god though, as long as it do not intrude to my life), but if people can have an open-minded relationship with some kind of god, that´s OK. BUT, do not refer to your god when you wan´t to beat up your wife, when you wan´t to opress the freedom of speech, when you wan´t to kill jews, when you wan´t to kill homosexuals, when you wan´t to kill democracy, and so on…
I have been told by Danish friends that they used to go on school camps to Bornholm. I wanted to learn Danish but Danish friends said that Norwegian was easier
In Britain Harriet Harman is bringing in a law by which murdering your husband can be put down as manslaughter – no jail time. The provocation can be anything and of course the witness is dead.
Hence, fucking your wife when she doesn’t want to is positively civilised.
Remember multi-cultural today means white marxist feminism. Political correctness (or Pissflap Culture) is the method to silence you. We can criticise certain types or groups but when someone like Germaine Greer (the well recognised open holed feminist nonce) supports genital mutilation as a postmodern cultural right she’s applauded.
We need to concentrate on what’s important.
Well, back to the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace.
Well, that kind of explains to why Ku Klux Klan is an organization of peace……..I will make peace with you provided your ass is as white as mine (That's putting it in a metaphorical way….I am Chinese). If you are black, well, sorry dude……..no peace……..draw thy sword.
In the same way, Islam is a religion of peace, to its own brethren. If you are a Muslim, I will treat you like a brother. If you ain't, I will convert you, and if you resist, then I will subjugate you, your people, and your land, and you will live on your conquered land as second or third class citizens. That is, if you still wish to make peace with us after we all pretty much done with the massacres and the pillaging.
In that sense, yes, Islam is a religion of peace.
Beast FCD
Yes back on topic
Yes cutting to straight to the point Beast although the Sunni and the Shia aren't too peaceful either, much like the catholics and protestants, ingroups within ingroups.
However who are we to interfere with their culture and society that we may find immoral may not neccicerily be immoral to them. So in all fairness we should not interfere… We should just leave them to sort out their own moral issues without us trying to impose our beliefs, which in many cases is just as wrong..
If we were talking about the eating of pork, or how to cut your hair it wouldn't bother me, but we are talking about human rights and the rape of women. In Australia we are governed by the rule of law, and that law should cover everyone. I am afraid that they knew we were a democratic country upholding the rule of law when they came here. Them's the rules.
I find you "washing of hands" approach unsettling to say the least
Well I’m afraid your statement that the Koran "preaches" this is incorrect.
In fact there is a lot of evidence to say that a very large majority of the Muslim society don’t even know what the true Koran says. Mainly because it was written so long ago in the old Muslim language that has been lost in translation as the years went by. This then promotes extremist Muslim groups to teach their version of the Koran without checking with experts to see whether their preaching is correct <clearly not> and a vast majority of experts would agree with me. However who are we to interfere with their culture and society that we may find immoral may not neccicerily be immoral to them. So in all fairness we should not interfere… We should just leave them to sort out their own moral issues without us trying to impose our beliefs, which in many cases is just as wrong..
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Yes he's already ticked off the Vatican